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Up-grading the Del Prado 1/100 Victory Options
Plymouth57
#181 Posted : 08 May 2013 18:06:37

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Hi again all!

Finally completed the Skid Beam rebuild with the exception of the supporting pillars which are underway now.

Photo 1 below shows the area at the bow end of the waist after the removal of the first skid beam. The sawn off end of the beam is visible under the black frame which has suffered superficial damage in the process. It’s not as bad as it looks however, and the damage is really nothing more than the removal of the black paint which is easily replaced. The end of the beam was then sanded off on the edges and painted black.

Photo 2 is the aft end of the waist with just two beams to go. You can also see the small strips of (toilet) paper placed in position under the ends of the beams ready to catch the sawdust from the X-Acto Razor Saw. This method worked really well and caught every last bit of the sawdust leaving no mess at all.

Photo 3 (excuse those damned lines again) Blushing is the completely beam-less waist. The extra space created is incredible, if only I’d been able to do this when the 12lb-ers were ready to fit in position, it would have been soooooo much easier instead of trying to thread them down between the beams!! Blink

Photo 4 shows the converted hull planks trimmed and notched to form the beam support ledge (Part A in the previous diagram). These were then (not without a few choice words) fitted and superglued in under the waist frame and deck to produce the finished ledge as shown in Photo 5.

Photo 6 shows the new skid beams cut to size from 4x3mm hardwood (Sapele?) sanded down to a good finish before adding the strips of thinned hull planks to form the shape of the original scarfed two part beams. It was far easier I found, to super the strips in place on the sides of the beams and then sand them down to size already glued on than to try and sand them to size first (apart from the rounded end of course). The finished beams with the ‘joints’ can be seen in Photo 7 and Photo 8 shows the final painted and dry brushed beams in their rough position. I still have to measure and re-check their final positions before final gluing (Far in the future!)

I have now to make up the supporting pillars, ten in total, these are being created from cocktail sticks on my Mantua mini lathe at the rate of one good one per two or three rejects, cocktail stick wood is not the most forgiving of materials but at £1 per 200 approx. from the Pound Shop, I can live with that! BigGrin I’ve got three done so far, two are glued under the aft-most beam and the third is the copy to make the others from. So that’s it for now, the main recovery job is almost complete, just another month or so to finish those pillars (Just joking, I think!) Crying and then I’ll be back on track until the next howler turns up!.

Happy Building to All

Robin
Plymouth57 attached the following image(s):
Skid Beams Rebuild 1pic.JPG
Skid Beams Rebuild 2 pic.JPG
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
Nemesis
#182 Posted : 08 May 2013 18:26:36

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That really is a stunning build!!Drool BigGrin
Admiral Anti Spiral
#183 Posted : 08 May 2013 18:58:06

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Lovely work robin BigGrin
Processing - Progressing

Previous builds: HMS Victory
Current build: HMS Sovereign of the seas
moriarty
#184 Posted : 08 May 2013 20:38:02

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There you go Rob, not so bad was it , nice recovery.Flapper
HMS Surprise
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SennaMentalMe
#185 Posted : 08 May 2013 22:24:55

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That is some stunningly good work there Robin - definitely of 'Museum Quality' and I don't think it would look out of place in the 'National Maritime Museum'!! CoolThumpUp

You really are a master of your art Robin and it really shows in your work - very well done sir!! Love Drool ThumpUp


Kev BigGrin
Gandale
#186 Posted : 08 May 2013 22:31:14

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Love it Robin Love Love .. incredible work as per your usual standards..... Cool Cool

Regards

Alan
Hans
#187 Posted : 09 May 2013 09:09:55

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Well done Robin, a master at work. The detailed tutorial and pics excellent.
Rgds, Hans
"It's okay to make mistakes. mistakes are our teachers - they help us to to learn, even if it is painfully"
Current Build:
Endeavour Cross section,D51
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Under the bench: Endeavour x 2,Sovereign of the Seas, Akagi and The Black Pearl!HMS Victory Cross Section
Plymouth57
#188 Posted : 09 May 2013 19:00:49

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Hi to All.

My sincerest thanks to all the above for their wonderful comments. All of us are putting everything we can into our builds with hours and hours of work, sawdust everywhere, spilt paintpots Blushing and so much more, and to receive such words from others that I regard as accomplished modellers themselves from their brilliant builds really makes the effort worthwhile.
And a special thanks to Kev, for any model to be described as Not out of place in the National Maritime Museum must surely be the highest praise possible in such a forum!! Blushing Blushing Blushing Blushing Blushing (Just can't get rid of this Cheshire Cat grin!!)
Many thanks to you all again and I think I'm finally getting better on the mini lathe - after breaking three cocktail sticks in a row, the last three pillars came out fine, one after the other!BigGrin

Robin
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
sparks
#189 Posted : 10 May 2013 00:45:00

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Looking great Robin, well done M8.
all the best
Alan
England expects that every man will do his duty.
Plymouth57
#190 Posted : 12 May 2013 20:57:14

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Thanks Sparks! BigGrin

The skid beams are now complete with the five sets of supporting pillars fixed in place below. Like Sparks, the beams and pillars are still loose but will be glued in place once the waist gun crews are in position.
The pillars were made up from humble cocktail sticks as outlined below (sorry, I forgot to number the images this time!)
Top left is a basic cocktail stick with one pointed end cut off flat, this end will fit into the brass lathe cup later.
Below that is the same stick with a square flat section filed into it using a small diamond dust flat file, this will produce the base of the pillar.
Bottom left is the stick with two small 'V' cuts made on the mini lathe to create the 'bulb' effect above the base. Also visible is the brass cup which holds the workpiece tight on the cone support on the lathe (see below)
Top right is the finished pillar after shaving down the thickness of the stick to that of the pillar. Before cutting the stick to length as shown in the bottom right, the lathe was run with first the flat diamond file running across the length of the pillar and finally a piece of old sand paper to smooth off the finish.
Finally the skid beams were drilled out to receive the pillars on a drill stand to ensure the proper 90 degree angle. The holes were drilled deep enough that the pillars had a little movement up and down, I then simply placed the beams in position and slid the pillars down until they touched the raised frame around the gratings!
The second photo shows the Mantua Mini Lathe used to produce these items. It's not a cheap tool but for those of us who can't afford a Unimat (You listening Gandale!!Flapper Flapper Flapper ) it's a very useful thing to get. The lathe works with 8 - 12v at 6 - 10A but for some unknown reason it just wouldn't run on my 0 - 20V, 12A power supply (an old office CB radio power supply) so I ended up having to buy the Mantua power supply as well. Still at least if I do get any of the other Mantua power tools in the future, I've got the supply all ready for them!Blink
So far I've used the lathe on these fiddly small bits and also to chamfer down the diameter of the bowsprit (coming later) and I can whole heartedly recommend it, it will really come into its own when I get to the masts and yards.
I think I bought the lathe from CMB, the power supply I got on ebay where it was a few ££'s cheaper.
The final photo shows the skids in place. I tried to get a clearer and closer photo but the auto focus always locks on to the beams and leaves the pillars slightly fuzzy so this is the best I can get!

Once again many thanks to all those looking in and to Sparks for pointing out that mistake before it was too late!Blushing

Robin
Plymouth57 attached the following image(s):
Skid Beam Pillars pic 1.JPG
Skid Beam Pillars pic 2.JPG
Skid Beam Pillars pic 3.JPG
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
Gandale
#191 Posted : 12 May 2013 21:32:21

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I'm listening Robin..... LOL LOL LOL .. I can't afford the Unimat either, I just have a very kind hearted brother in law..... ain't he wonderful... LOL LOL LOL Flapper Flapper LOL LOL LOL ... Back to the build, superb stuff and to think I have thousands of cocktail sticks and now know they can be put to real good use.... will definately be trying out your technique on some of those sticks with of course my ....... UNIMAT....LOL LOL .. Keep em coming Robin, excellent work.... Cool Cool

Regards

Alan



sparks
#192 Posted : 12 May 2013 22:26:30

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Fantastic work Robin, your scratch building skills are amazing.
So glad that my bad news has turned to your advantage.
Shame I didn't see this forum a lot earlier before you did the guns in the waist area Wink
Regards
Alan
England expects that every man will do his duty.
Hans
#193 Posted : 13 May 2013 09:20:42

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Lovely stuff Robin. She beginning to look real grand and thanks for the tutorial. Filed away for future use.
Rgds, Hans
"It's okay to make mistakes. mistakes are our teachers - they help us to to learn, even if it is painfully"
Current Build:
Endeavour Cross section,D51
Completed: HMS Victory
Under the bench: Endeavour x 2,Sovereign of the Seas, Akagi and The Black Pearl!HMS Victory Cross Section
MWG
#194 Posted : 13 May 2013 18:43:56

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Hi Robin, I have been looking in from time to time, your scratch work is very goodBigGrin Thank you for sharing your skills, Kind regards Mike
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Plymouth57
#195 Posted : 18 May 2013 23:40:48

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Many thanks to all above for your kind comments! I was hoping to carry on playing Napoleon Total War tonight but the blasted Steam thing that runs the game has broken down yet again so here I am instead! I really HATE that Steam!!!!Cursing

Ok! This is the second part of the aft Waist Barricade, the spindly top section. I had intended to try and make the pillars out of cut down wooden belaying pins as in the first photo but after getting the hang of using the mini lathe I decided to abandon that idea and make the pillars out of yet more cocktail sticks. The result of that change is shown in Photo 2. I tried to make them as doubles like the bottom example but too many of them broke so I made them singularly instead. The only good double was itself fated, when I cut off the first half I dropped it and it disappeared onto the floor never to be seen again (despite a long and hard search) A replacement had to follow!
Photo 3 shows the eight new pillars glued up into the shelf piece, once dry (overnight) the excess tops were trimmed off and the shelf sanded down before painting in Admiralty Black and drybrushed white. The resulting barricade is completed in Photo 4.

Once the Barricade was fixed in place the next section was the Hammock Netting frame to go on top of the shelf.
Photo 5 shows the frame made up out of 0.5mm brass wire on top of a brass base. The Hammock Cranes were bent to shape and only the outside two were soldered lightly to the brass base. Once they were in place the two horizontal wires which will later become the supporting ropes were soldered onto the tops of the frames (not as easy as I imagined!). With the 'ropes' in place, the remaining cranes were placed in between the wires and kept in position with a kinked ended pair of sprung tweezers whilst they were soldered to the wires (but not to the base).
I tried to blacken the frame with Blacken It which proved a complete failure, despite cleaning the frame in PCB Cleaner and Flux remover, all I got was a black powdery finish which wouldn't clean off completely and made the Admiralty Metal Black replacement finish go lumpy with every brush stroke!Crying
Eventually however I managed to get a reasonable covering of paint as can be seen in Photo 7 (not glued down, just standing on the shelf)
For the Hammock Netting I employed the first piece of the nylon mesh I bought from the market stall in Plymouth (Hi Moriarty, it's the flimsier one, the thicker one seemed a little over scale when I tried it here.)
I had bought the black netting not realising that the actual netting was natural hemp, not tarred which makes sense, nobody would want tar all over their clean hammocks after all! So the first job was to tone down the black mesh with a light brushing of Citidel grey (the one I bought to undercoat the scratch built figures) just brushed a strip onto white paper, laid the mesh on top and brushed over it doing both sides at once. The difference it made can be seen in Photo 7. Once the grey was dry, only a few minutes, it was trimmed roughly to size and wrapped around a scrap of plank wood to help ease it into the frame, after it was in position the plank was removed and the excess trimmed down to the top of the frame. The final completed frame and net can be seen in the final photo, No.8

It's turned out fairly well after all the work involved, it was a little more fiddly than I thought it would be but the final result isn't too bad so I'll be using the same method for the rest of the Hammock Frames in due course. I'm also going to make up a thin sausage of white Milliput epoxy putty cut into equal lengths to simulate the actual hammocks just to see if it looks better with them in the nets (which, as I'm modelling her in the actual battle they should be in there really!) Again, the frame is not yet stuck down, I'm leaving it loose until the gun crew figures are down there, it does stick up a little too much for my (once nimble) fingers to avoid!

See you soon (if that damned game still won't work!)

Robin

Ah, forgot to mention I haven't glued the netting in yet, I think PVA should do it without too much mess!
Plymouth57 attached the following image(s):
Barricade Top Construction Pic.JPG
Hammock Frame Construction Pic 1.JPG
Hammock Frame Construction Pt 2 Pic.JPG
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
jase
#196 Posted : 19 May 2013 01:04:52

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Some really fine work enjoying watching this Cool

J
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Gandale
#197 Posted : 19 May 2013 10:32:47

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Love it Robin, another first class description of your techniques... Drool Drool Love Love Drool Drool ... Looking forward to seeing more... BigGrin BigGrin

Regards

Alan
Plymouth57
#198 Posted : 02 June 2013 21:35:04

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Many thanks to Jase and Alan, glad you're finding it useful! Blushing

I'm gradually filling in some of the bits I've sort of missed out or passed by as I worked along the main deck. This installment adds one of the more noticeable ommissions - the main entry steps.
Sparks and Moriarty have both done a lovely set of steps in traditional wood, unfortunately most of my stocks of wood are from the DelPrado kit and are not really up to creating the very thin steps needed here. I do still have quite a bit of good quality hardwood left over from the Grimsby (I would estimate that kit supplied about 25% extra wood over and above what was needed to build her - thanks Constructo!) but the spare planks are over twice as thick as I want and I don't fancy all that sanding!, so for this little job, (turned out to be not as little as I thought!)BigGrin I have, for the very first time in my wooden ship career turned to drastic plastic!!!Scared
Now that some of us have fainted clean away, here's how it went!BigGrin I wanted to get as close to scale as possible to try and get all 23 steps in place, the DelPrado instructions say to use 3mm wide strakes with a total of only 17 fitted to the hull. (6 must have been shot away!Blink )
The first photo below illustrates the materials used, in this case two profiles from the Plastructs range which is widely available from most model shops. The steps were cut to size from the 0.8 x 2.5mm Styrene strip (90735) with the slightly smaller curved 'under-support' cut from the 1.5mm Quarter Round (90893) each pack contains 10 lengths and although almost a fiver each, I've only used less than three strips from each pack to make both sets of steps.

The second photo illustrates the sequence of manufacture,
A The two lengths cut to size, the dimensions were taken from the 1/48 scale Anatomy of the Ship, Victory drawings and converted to 1/100.
B The two pieces stacked one on top of the other.
C The two ends of the quarter round were then sanded down into a curved finish and once completed, the two parts were superglued together.
D After a couple of minutes I could then gently sand the back face of the step to match the angle of the ship's hull. Without this stage, the steps would all be sticking out at slightly different angles and would look completely wrong! I have to admit, the smallest of the steps was right at my limit of having something to grip onto in order to sand it at all! Any smaller and forget it! (I do have some nicely manicured finger nails now though!!)BigGrin

The photo at the bottom of the diagram shows one of the finished steps which was cropped out of the right hand photo which shows all 23 steps before sanding. I found that painting them first gave me a little more grip to hold them on the sand paper, once shaped they were given another coat before placement onto the hull.

The final photograph shows the fully completed port side steps, the starboard set are the ones in the 'group photo' which are now being painted up to match. I couldn't do a painted group because I wasn't sure what colour they were going to be until they were fitted on, now that the one side is done I can paint the second lot to match!

Well, that's it for a bit, the finished side was drybrushed as usual and I also added a little bit of Admiralty Walnut in places just to simulate the wear and tear these steps would receive from both human traffic and the constant wave action. As I said, this is the first time I have used plastic on a wooden model (sounds of spitting in the background!) but overall it's done the job quite well (and a whole lot better than some bits of 3mm scaffolders plank!!LOL )

See you all soon.


Robin
Plymouth57 attached the following image(s):
Side steps 1 pic.JPG
Side steps 2. pic.JPG
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
moriarty
#199 Posted : 02 June 2013 21:58:47

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Never thought of doing the steps in plastic Rob and theres me using it all the time, very neat job done with them, they look great BigGrin Love Cool
HMS Surprise
HMS Snake
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HMS Royal Caroline
HMS Victory rebuild
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Gandale
#200 Posted : 02 June 2013 22:00:54

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Robin, would never have known you had used the dreaded plastic if you hadn't said anything.... Very well done, she is looking fantastic.... BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

Regards

Alan
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