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Amateur building Atlas Editions Vasa Options
Per Ca
#1 Posted : 02 June 2018 18:40:50

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Hi, my name is Per Carlsson, living in Sweden. I am building Vasa supplied by Editions Atlas. I have advanced a bit, but being a true amateur, building "straight from the box", I have experienced some difficulties although the quality of the kit is very good.
I plan to make a build diary explaining my problems and my thoughts about parts and other things. I hope to get some tips from the more experience.
There will be no photos.
The kit from Editions Atlas is delivered in 36 packages with four stages in each. Not like the d'Agostini deliveries. But I plan to comment on 10 stages in each input.
Gandale
#2 Posted : 02 June 2018 18:58:59

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Welcome aboard Per, its great to have you with us. I would ask you to reconsider posting up some pics of your build and of the problems you are experiencing. It is very difficult for us to give any meaningful and accurate advise on any problem unless we can see some of it for ourselves. If we can help then we will....

Look forward to hearing from you...

Regards

Alan
Per Ca
#3 Posted : 02 June 2018 19:02:45

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The build, stage 1-10:
These stages are quite straightforward, so I have not much to say about the instructions or the materials.
But I have read much about Vasa before starting the build, so I reacted on the size of cannon C2 (stage 2). Are they not very short? I have seen info that the main cannons were about 2850 mm long, which is about 44 mm i 1:65 scale. But C2 cannons are only 25-27 mm long (depending on if you count the handle at the rear).
Has anyone else reacted on this?
I also am curious about the lack of metal (brass) details on the gun carriages, why is it not like the carriage for the C1 cannon (stage 9)?
PC
Per Ca
#4 Posted : 02 June 2018 19:09:06

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Thank you Gandale!
Actually I have assembled quite a number of stages, but I did not think of taking pictures until later in the process. So up to about stage 30 there are nothing to show, except if I want compare with the original. But I don't know if pictures found on internet can be published here.
But I do have pictures, and will try to learn how to attach them.
PC
arpurchase
#5 Posted : 02 June 2018 19:22:42

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BigGrin Welcome to the forum and enjoy your build and stay with us Cool
Current builds:-C57,Zero, Lamborghini Countach, Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon,Robi,R2-D2, MFH Cobra .

Gandale
#6 Posted : 02 June 2018 19:49:26

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Per Ca wrote:
Thank you Gandale!
Actually I have assembled quite a number of stages, but I did not think of taking pictures until later in the process. So up to about stage 30 there are nothing to show, except if I want compare with the original. But I don't know if pictures found on internet can be published here.
But I do have pictures, and will try to learn how to attach them.
PC


Hi Per, pics from the internet don't actually help as they are not of your own build and its your own build your queries will relate to. Posting pics on the forum is not difficult, here's a link giving lots of information that you may find useful....

https://forum.model-spac....aspx?g=posts&t=244

Regards

Alan
Martyn Ingram
#7 Posted : 02 June 2018 20:26:56

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BigGrin Welcome to the forum Per Ca looking forward to seeing your progress Cool .
I'm going to be starting my build of this iconic ship soon with a bit of a custom build Cool

Martyn
Building Deag Vasa
Completed. Soliei Royal . Sovereign of the Seas . Virginia . Scotland . San Felipe . Corel vasa , Santisima Trinadad X section
Next Build Drago ?
When sailors have good wine, They think themselves in heaven for the time. John Baltharpe
Per Ca
#8 Posted : 03 June 2018 10:21:27

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Thank you all for welcoming me. I hesitated a lot about making this diary, since I am a beginner at making wood models (although old and experienced in age), and it is not always fun displaying one's errors. And looking at the diary of Mr. Gohfelder did not help my self confidence. Well, I know my limitations and will not compare at all with him.
But I thought there must be many beginners out there, especially since the Vasa was distributed in a large (?) number in Sweden, as well as Denmark, Norway and Finland.
So, my story goes on.....
arek
#9 Posted : 03 June 2018 10:36:30

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Hi Per! And welcome to the forum!ThumpUp

I'm sure you will enjoy use of this forum. I know that there is couple of members collecting Vasa including myself and we will see some builds starting shortly.
Also I would like to join others and encourage you to post some pictures from your build. It will be helpful if you seeking any advice but also great help for those who only staring the build.Wink

Regards,
Arek
Per Ca
#10 Posted : 03 June 2018 10:55:36

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Stage 11 to 20:
Well, this is mainly about the hull frame, and the parts fit together very well. I have no problems with the construction at all but when I reach stage 13 and parts 20a-e, I get a bit uncertain. These parts shapes the curvature of the lower stern, and I think they are too curved. Not much, but what I remember of the real ship is a very slight curvature, although not totally flat.
I decide to go with my own opinion, and adjust the profile with a couple of millimeters. Hardly noticeable, but it makes me feel better.
In stage 16 comes my first encounter with "bending". The tip is to soak the parts in question in water. My experience was that water caused some disfiguring and I wondered if the glue in the ply sheets was waterproof. So later I started to use denaturated spirit (don't know the real English expression) instead.
Now quite a number of metal parts (cannond, anchor, sculptures) start adding up, and I soon discovered that painting them as they arrived meant opening paint bottles, stirring paint, closing paint bottles, cleaning brushes.... so I decided the collect a good batch before painting. To keep most of the metal parts in place I used double-adhesive tape fixed on A4 cardboard sheets. So the parts are neatly lined up by their numbers.
In stage 19 it is time to paint the frame C11 around the cherubs C9/10 and the Vasa crest C7/8. Before that I made a dry fit of these items, and I can't fit C7-11 within the frame C11. Of course I have not yet instructions for fitting them, but I fear a future problem!
PC
Per Ca
#11 Posted : 03 June 2018 12:22:41

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A few thoughts about colours

In the building instructions colours are referred to by RAL numbers in most cases. So far I have counted about 30 defined colours and a good amount of mixed colours. I can imagine that the people creating this model have done their best, but sometimes they have simplified matters. I would say that not two sculptures have the same colouring, and also not two sculptures are made exactly the same.
My conclusion: I will disregard the instructions from time to time. It is better to seek info on photos of the 1:10 model of the Vasa museum, as well as info in books (which a have four or five on the Vasa subject).
And speaking of the Vasa museum, their colour chart is a good guide to the colours used:
www.vasamuseet.se/global...amodellen-fargschema.pdf
Sorry, I must learn how to attach (pdf) files. Ticking the box "Attach files to this post?" did not make me wiser....
I have also collected colour samples of the RAL colours, using my connections from a former employment. They are a good help adjusting the tone of the colours in my bottles.
So the end result for my colouring will be a blend of information from instructions, Vasa "fargschema" and what I can find in books and on the net.
PC
Tomick
#12 Posted : 03 June 2018 12:29:00
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Suggest you read the info in this link as the museum model is far from accurate because it was built and painted many years ago before current info was known
http://forum.model-space...spx?g=posts&t=26659
Per Ca
#13 Posted : 03 June 2018 12:48:28

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And a few thoughts about the sculptures

All sculptures I have got so far are for the stern. And there's a lot of them.
As I mentioned earlier, on the real ship there were not two sculptures really identical. On the model there are, for obvious reasons, not always motivated to make individual items.
For example, the lions C4 and C5 are mirror images on the model, and the same goes for the cherubs C9/C10 and the griffons C30/C31. I had thoughts about "personalizing" them, but gave it up. It is metal, and I don't have the skill.
More irritating is that the five very different grotesque faces are not all different. For some reason there are only three different, meaning that two are the same as one of the other three. The instructions suggest to paint them the same pattern but I will try to give them different looks. But why couldn't they make five when they could make three?
The male statues C24 all look the same, but of course their postures are a little different on the real ship. Not much to do about that for me. There are six of them (the row under the large black knights), and here I will go by the colours on the 1:10 model, and not follow instructions.
The male statues C37 are probably the musicians on the row over the large black knights. There are five of them, and on the real ships it looks like they hold different instruments. I have not yet fully studied that. But the model figures are all alike, holding a torch(?). Anyway, here I will make a small effort to add instruments. But that will be later, just before assembly. And again, colours will be from the 1:10 model and not the instructions.
There will be well over a hundred sculptures, so I guess there is more to say later.
PC
Per Ca
#14 Posted : 03 June 2018 12:55:28

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Thank you Tomick for info about the colours of the 1:10 model as well as the real ship.
The question for me is: Is the build instructions more correct than the 1:10 model? Since the instructions so often are simplified I prefer to choose the colour scheme of the 1:10 model if my books don't give other information.
One thing is for sure, whatever I choose it will not be exactly as the real ship.

I am new at this forum and trying to read all input about Vasa, and I am sure I will learn more.

PC
Gandale
#15 Posted : 03 June 2018 18:25:36

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As you say, the question is for ‘you’ alone regarding whether the instructions you have is more accurate than the 1:10 model, as you’ve already stated in your opening post that you are building the ‘Editions Atlas’ version. As you refer to your copy of the instructions (which we do not have), but not posting up any pics makes it very difficult for us to follow your arguments and respond in a meaningful way.

What I can say is that the DeAgostini Vasa kit has been designed by Artesania Latina under guidance of the Vasa Museum and 'Frederick Hocker', who since 2004 as Director of Vasa Research, has been responsible for the comprehensive publication of the find.

Fred has provided the most current information of the ship and assisted Artesania in the kit design. It is much more accurate and buildable than the other Vasa kits on the market and he recommends it highly.

The Official build is following the instructions closely and that includes the painting of all the decorations. These instructions are available to view here on the Vasa Web page and you may find them useful when painting your decorations.

https://www.model-space..../gb/build-the-vasa.html

A list of all the paints used on the Official Build, up to and including Pack 8 can also be found here:

https://forum.model-spac...spx?g=posts&t=26169

Regards

Alan
Spal
#16 Posted : 03 June 2018 21:36:42

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Welcome to the forum PerBigGrin I'm sure you will find the forum very helpful.

Al
Per Ca
#17 Posted : 04 June 2018 13:24:06

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Thank you Tomick and Gandale for enlightening me about the colouring of the sculptures. Or rather the uncertainty about the matter.
For those who don't know it, Editions Atlas is (or was) a part of d'Agostini. So the instructions are exactly the same (except the language, but I guess you understand that...), maybe with a few editorial differences. For example, the d'Agostini version is not limited to four pages for each stage as the Editions Atlas' version, so the pictures are sometimes larger and better.
And I know that Artesania Latina makes the model, someone told me. And their logo was on a gift early on, and also on a tool for shaping wood strips.

Back to the colour issue. There is not that much info about the new findings, is there? The latest book I have on the Vasa subject is Vasa - ett svenskt krigsskepp" (Vasa - a Swedish warship) by F Hocker from 2018. It hardly mention colouring at all, and also has a lot of non-Vasa info about the time and conditions when it was built. Not the best source of information.

I also have some "ancient" books. Of course "Regalskeppet Vasan" by B Landström (1980), "I lejonets tid" (Glorious Vasa is the English edition) by Matz/Hammarskiöld from 1999. However, the best books about the sculptures are "Regalskeppet Vasa - Skulpturer" from 1978 and "The Power of Glory" from 1986, both by Hans Soop. Not much about colours, but great about the sculptures. Especially the last one, because it has this great side view of the ship as a fold-out. These second hand books I have found at low prices on bokborsen.se, take a look. English language car be chosen.

It is great to hear that Mr. Hocker has participated in the making of the model, I was not aware of that. But I still think that some allowance was made to ease production, so the colour suggestions in the instructions may well be simplified as well as the figures themselves.
So I will try to find out more. Still plenty of time for research.
Per Ca
#18 Posted : 04 June 2018 14:03:27

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Here's my thoughts about stage 21 to 30:
Stages 21 to 23 are about the last steps when it comes to building the inner structure, and with stage 24 the first strips for hull cladding are provided.
Stage 25 begins with instructions how to paint the interior where the gun ports later will open up. No problem there, although I observed that the part where the first bow gun ports are situated were not painted. So I painted the area in front of part 2 also. Much later, when the hull is complete, it is said to paint this through the gun ports.
And in stage 25 the struggle begins! Time to begin the clad the hull with 2 mm wood strips. Time to start bending strips without proper tools. And are they sturdy! "Dip the strip in water for a few minutes" the instruction said, but a few minutes is not enough. I tried soaking the strips overnight, but they became a bit rough. So finally I used denaturated spirit, and left them overnight. I worked well.
For bending the strips I used a hot-air gun, a fewjigs which i sawed out of some planks, and a lot of clamps. Now, after it is done, I can say it could have been better to buy a bending tool. But a beginner will try with what is at hand, And the job was done. This hull cladding goes on to stage 44 or there about, and not much else.
Here I think lies one of the more obvious mistakes with the model. At stage 28 the cladding reaches the lower stern (the part with diagonal timber, if you know what I mean). Looking at the original the timber on the sides are outside the stern timber, meaning that you see the ends of the side timbers. So not on the model, which will be revealed later. I will tell later about the changes I made.
And talking about revealing: After this 2 mm cladding the hull should be shaped and sanded, which the instructions tells me to do carefully. Gaps should be filled, and so on. No mention the hull will have a SECOND cladding, this time with 0.5 mm strips. So a super perfect hull is not really needed.
That's all for now, my story about stage 31-40 will be shorter. But filled with agony...
PC
arpurchase
#19 Posted : 04 June 2018 14:45:29

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BigGrin Hi Per

The RAL paint numbers have been provided the the Vasa Museum and are the closest match to paint chips removed from the carvings.

As for your other build problems I would suggest following the official build diary as our builder has not had the problems you have had on your build and again pictures of your difficulties would also help us to help you resolve them.

You say yourself that you are a novice in building model ships and most of the problems with planking you have so far had are what all beginners go through and are just the result of inexperience. The learning curve on planking and getting it right is high and when finished brings its own rewards.

As for your comment on the 1st planking and its finish. The 1st planking must have a smooth finish without dips and any bulges this is to ensure good adhesion of the second planking to the 1st. If the 1st layer of planks are not prepared correctly then any blemishes not fixed can and will show on the surface of the second planking.

Regards

AndyCool
Current builds:-C57,Zero, Lamborghini Countach, Caldercraft HMS Agamemnon,Robi,R2-D2, MFH Cobra .

arek
#20 Posted : 04 June 2018 14:55:25

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Hi Per,

I'm beginner to, recently finished my first hull planking so I don't really feel in to position to giving advice's but I would definitely recommended electric plank bender for shaping planks. If you interested check post #69 in my building log :
http://forum.model-space...sts&t=15958&p=4

You will need some practice but work great for me. Also I don't know how the electric plank bender will work for your wood I was using for 2x5mm mahogany

Regards,
Arek

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