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Up-grading the Del Prado 1/100 Victory Options
Gandale
#281 Posted : 10 September 2013 23:52:14

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Brilliant once again Robin and a lot of food for thought when I get to building the Vic.... superbly described too..Cool Cool .. And a big thank you for the reference to my diary, appreciate the kind and supportive comments.. Made me happy to know at least I've been able to enlighten you on a small aspect of modelling even if it is about the availability of 1mm grating strips.... Great work...Cool Cool

Regards

Alan
moriarty
#282 Posted : 11 September 2013 11:41:40

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Well what can I say Rob, another excellant piece of detailing. You just seem to keep pushing the boundry on this build. Very nice, well doneBigGrin Love Cool
HMS Surprise
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HMS Victory rebuild
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Plymouth57
#283 Posted : 12 September 2013 21:48:02

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Thanks so much to Steve, Alan and Moriarty, I enjoyed those little lockers despite the intensive concentration and the spots before my eyes! BigGrin Have to admit it really makes the poop/stern area look more 'lived in'!
Just made up the second attempt at the waist barricade netting frame (which I have probably repeated below so just ignore it! Blushing The rest of the frames will follow soon so here's another in the Plymouth's Cheapo Tool collection! Blink


Not the actual model this time, but yet another simple little gizmo to try and make a fiddly job a little easier!
I’m beginning to go back along the decks of the old Vic now and starting to make up the rest of the Hammock Nets which will line the upper bulwarks in due time. The next major job is going to be the Poop Deck side Barricades which most of you don’t have to bother with as your Vics are in the Portsmouth configuration whereas mine is in her Trafalgar ‘get up’. This means whilst I got away without having to make the Foc’sl side fences, I do have to make extra removable bulwarks for the other end of the ship! But more of that later.
I have just finished the replacement frame for the waist barricade nets and during the construction of that one (the second smallest of the lot!) I was reminded of the slight and irritating problem that I had the first time around – I need three hands!! If you go way back to the earlier post where I made the first frame you can see that it was of brass construction, soldered together on a brass strip. Only the two end frames are soldered to that strip, the ones in between are simply stood in position and their uprights are then soldered to the longitudinal brass wire bars which become the ‘ropes’ to secure the netting on to. The problem was this – sometimes I am lucky and the ‘U’ frame stays where it is and is soldered with no problems, but many times however, the little blighters either move out of line when the soldering iron is applied or, even worse go ‘pinging’ off the entire workbench! That’s why I need three hands – one to hold the soldering iron, one to hold the solder and a third to keep the ‘U’ frame where it should be.
Being of the impatient variety and not willing to await the evolutionary production of that third appendage, here’s a quicker solution.
What I have done is to convert a simple small Bulldog Clip by cutting away a section at the right hand side from the jaws (upper one only), this can be seen in the first couple of photos below. This creates a little ‘tooth’ on the side of the top jaw under which the base of the ‘U’ frame can be gripped against the brass strip. On the first attempt, because of the angle of the jaws against the brass strip, the U frame was gripped at a slight angle. This was cured by just super gluing a strip of wooden planking onto the inside of the lower jaw to compensate, that’s the bit of wood visible in the photos.
The largest photo shows the strip which is the temporary base for the frames held in the Helping Hands multi-grippy thingy and in the final photo the U frame can be seen securely held in place. The one in this photo is actually an undersized scrap frame, the actual ones are taller so the uprights can be soldered to the bars.
There are a couple of little alterations I might need to add to this set up, I build the frames from right to left so this gizmo will work fine until I approach the left hand side where the end frame is already soldered down. As the frames are fixed at a regular spacing, when I arrive at the end one I should be able to simply ‘cut off disk’ a slot into the upper jaw to accommodate the end frame. In fact, as the frames are regularly spaced along the bulwarks, that slot, if measured accurately to begin with would also be a convenient marking point for the next u frame to fit! (I just thought that up as I was typing this out!!)
That’s it for now, be back soon when I have some more pics to post!

Happy Building to all!

Robin


Plymouth57 attached the following image(s):
Hammock Frame Clamp Gizmo Pic.JPG
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
sparks
#284 Posted : 12 September 2013 22:19:12

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Clever idea Robin ThumpUp
Lovely work on the flag lockers too BTW.
Regards
Alan
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Gandale
#285 Posted : 12 September 2013 22:50:22

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Robin, you really do come up with some simple but brilliant little gadgets to make life that little bit easier..... Drool Drool .. All banked in the memory cells for later.... LOL LOL .. Keep em coming..Cool Cool

Regards

Alan
Plymouth57
#286 Posted : 24 September 2013 21:53:32

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Thanks again to the Alans! Greatly appreciated. Blushing

Here's another of my money saving schemes for impoverished modellers! BigGrin

First of all a quick update on the hammock frames. I’ve completed the replacement waist barricade frame and also soldered up and painted the first of the long thin frames for the quarter deck bulwarks. The little frame clamp worked as well as I’d hoped and taught me two things, firstly the little clamp works! And secondly, there’s no way I’m going to be mass producing these things! Crying One at a time with some other jobs in between will be far more enjoyable. So with that in mind, here’s a little ‘Helpful Hints/Tutorial’ entitled “Any Old Iron”

The Victory (and almost all other period ships) are liberally festooned with iron ring bolts screwed into the hull and decks onto which are fastened ropes, blocks and various other interesting rigging type objects and this is one way to achieve an authentic ‘rusty iron’ effect to produce those bolts.
Although quite a simple operation, describing the actual procedure is a little complicated so this tutorial is necessarily heavy in images (twenty of them in fact), and to see what the text is describing means a lot of scrolling up and down for which I apologise! Anyway, here it is.

The first photo shows the collection of tools used in the project. There are two mini vices, there would have been three but my Saturday trip into town failed to obtain a third from the local “Tool Shed” shop – “Oh you mean those ones we had in the £1 section? They’re long gone now!”Crying Also shown is a pair of matching electronic snips and long nosed pliers, a fairly coarse grade steel wool pad, a coil of 0.5mm brass wire (came with the DelPrado kit) and one of those useful little pots from “The Works” to keep the finished articles in. As the photo mentions, not shown is the chemical Blacken-It and the fresh water neutralising bath.
The first task is to remove any surface layers which might impede the action of the Blacken-It. This is done quite easily by forming the steel wool into a ‘V’ shaped pad, unreeling about six to eight inches of the wire and squeezing the wire between the steel wool several times with a fair amount of pressure on the wool. After several passes the wire should be a beautiful shiny brass colour. Once this is done, try not to hold the wire too tightly with bare fingers. Unless you wear rubber gloves there is no way NOT to touch it at some point but a light touch doesn’t seem to affect the chemical reaction to any great degree.
Photo 1 shows the creation of the brass rings, which will be fitted into the bolts. This is exactly the same method as used to make the cannon tackle rings much earlier in the diary. The brass wire is simply wound around a drill bit held in one of the vices and when about half a dozen coils have been formed the pliers (or a pair of tweezers as I have also used) are used to lightly grip the drill bit above the coils and then slid down compressing the coils into a uniform size.
Once done, the snips are used to gently cut up through the coil, a layer at a time producing the basic rings shown in Photo 2. At this point, the rings are still crooked due to being cut from a spiral coil so the next stage is to place them one at a time between the jaws of the pliers and squash them level (Photo 4). This completes the basic rings for the time being.
In Photo 5 we begin the forming of the actual ring bolt. The first stage is to bend the wire around the drill bit by gripping the end with the pliers and literally pulling it around the bit to the point as seen in Photo 5. (From here on, the yellow disk represents the drill bit as seen from above.) With the partially bent wire still pressed against the bit, use the long nosed pliers to gently squeeze the end of the wire around the bit, closing up the gap until just short of touching the wire together as seen in Photo 7.
The next stage is to change the squeezing action to the opposite side of the bolt and using just the tips of the pliers, squeeze the other side in to meet the tip of the wire (Photo 8). This produces the closed ring bolt, but may be slightly ‘lop-sided’ so give the shaft of the bolt a squeeze with the flat of the pliers jaws (like the way the ring was flattened) to level it out resulting in the finished bolt as seen in Photos 9 and 10. (To be completely honest, that finished bolt should have had its shaft bent a little more to the left!
The finished bolt is then placed in the jaws of the mini vice ready to receive it’s ring, (Photo 11) after the next small adjustment.
Photo 12 shows that large sewing needle mentioned at the beginning and is also the reason why I really wanted three of those mini vices; one for the drill bit, one for the finished bolt and the third for this needle! In Photo 12 the previously made and flattened ring is inserted on to the tip of the needle, then, using either the long nosed pliers or a pair of tweezers again, the ring is slid up the needle shaft until it reaches the eye of the needle, the rear part of which is gripped tightly in the vice. Slowly and gently, the ring is pushed up over the eye, the increase in diameter of the needle pushing the ring open. Don’t go too far over the eye, just enough to prise the ring apart wide enough to fit into the bolt, too far and one end of the ring always gets jammed into the needle’s eye and believe me, it’s a right job getting it back out again! Once the ring is spread sufficiently, slide it back off the needle as seen in Photo 13.
The open ring can now be threaded into the bolt and the long nosed pliers used to close up the gap, permanently fixing the ring onto the bolt. I found it best to keep the pliers flat along the top surface of the vice with the ring gripped in their jaws about two thirds of the way back towards the handle. It is very important to ensure that the ring is exactly symmetrical in the bolt during this operation (ie, half of it sticking out each side of the bolt) if it is lop sided, the ring will close up in an oval shape instead of completely round, once this happens it takes a lot of effort to get it back into shape again!Blushing After closing up the ring, we have a finished ring bolt as shown in Photos 14 and 15.
To all those building their vessels in varnished wood and shiny brass, this is where you finish. All you need to do is to give the ring-bolt assembly a coat of varnish or lacquer to keep it bright and shiny.
Those like me however, building and painting their ships, the bolts will need to be either painted or chemically blackened to represent the iron construction of the original item. In this instance I am blackening the brass with a chemical concoction called “Blacken-it” which has appeared in many other build diaries. The ring bolts attached to the decks would be regularly re-painted with the same lead-based black paint as employed on the cannon barrels so for them, probably painting them with the Admiralty Metal Black is the most authentic method of all. For those ring bolts situated down the sides of the hull however, re-painting them was a difficult business and was mainly done only when the vessel was in dock for refitting. The slightly rusty appearance of the blackened-it bolts, are perfect for those locations.
In Photo 16 the Ring-bolt is seen sitting in its bath of Blacken-it. The huge looking tub is in fact a 35mm film canister that the film rolls used to come in (remember film in cameras?)Blink . In order to work properly, the item placed in the solution needs to be moved around the bath every now and then to prevent a build up of oxides on the surface of the brass, which can result in a ‘lumpy’ uneven appearance. The easiest way to do this is with a cheap bristle brush as shown in Photo 17, this was one of a set of brushes I bought from the Plymouth branch of “The Works” primarily for dry-brushing. This photo also shows the other use of these brushes, picking up the bolt to remove it from the bath and moving it to the fresh water neutralising bath to stop the chemical reaction from completely dissolving the brass! NOTE that in reality its best to dip a half dozen or more bolts at a time rather than just the one as shown here.
Photo 18 is the same example bolt in the water bath and finally, in Photo 19 you can see the final effect: an iron bolt with its ring attached ready to insert into the hull. There was a Photo 20 originally which showed a pair of these bolts fitted into the bow but it was taken with such a high magnification that the beautifully straight demarcation line between the dull black and yellow ochre looked like it had been slapped on by a drunken Yardie at 4.30 on a Friday afternoon! No way was I posting THAT up!Flapper

So that’s how I get my ring-bolts. This method will give a much smaller item than the stock bolts sold in the model shops and works out much cheaper than the photo etched versions also available. A £4.00 or £5.00 roll of brass wire from an on-line supplier would provide hundreds if not more of these things so they work out really cheap to produce and despite all the written instructions above, are actually very easy to make.Cool

Best of Luck to All.

Robin


Plymouth57 attached the following image(s):
Any old iron Part 1 pic.JPG
Any old iron Part 2 pic.JPG
Any old iron Part 3 pic.JPG
Any old iron Part 4 pic.JPG
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
NMBROOK
#287 Posted : 24 September 2013 22:51:57

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Some fantastic tutorials RobinCool Cool.I enjoy reading them immensely.
Fabulous work!
Kind Regards Nigel
Gandale
#288 Posted : 24 September 2013 23:04:38

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Another cracker Robin, learn so much from your inspirational tutorials.... Love it...Love Love

Regards

Alan
Plymouth57
#289 Posted : 25 September 2013 23:40:34

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Many thanks Alan and Nigel, glad you're finding my attempts so useful! Blushing

One thing I forgot to mention in the last post, when cutting the brass wire to begin the bolt itself, I try to grind off the tip of the wire with the rotary and either the diamond dust wheel or just a cut off disk. This flattens off the 'snipped' end into a neater finish once the rounded end is formed as seen in Photos 6 - 10.
The rings themselves are a little too small to be able to do that unfortunately, but then again, they're SO small that you can't tell too much either! BigGrin
Must get that long hammock net done soon so I can glue her on and get some pics.

Back soon.

Robin
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
Gandale
#290 Posted : 25 September 2013 23:43:32

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Plymouth57 wrote:
Many thanks Alan and Nigel, glad you're finding my attempts so useful! Blushing

One thing I forgot to mention in the last post, when cutting the brass wire to begin the bolt itself, I try to grind off the tip of the wire with the rotary and either the diamond dust wheel or just a cut off disk. This flattens off the 'snipped' end into a neater finish once the rounded end is formed as seen in Photos 6 - 10.
The rings themselves are a little too small to be able to do that unfortunately, but then again, they're SO small that you can't tell too much either! BigGrin
Must get that long hammock net done soon so I can glue her on and get some pics.

Back soon.

Robin


Looking forward to the next instalment Robin, will enjoy seeing your attempt at the long hammock net...... Good luck.... Cool Cool

Regards

Alan
ian smith
#291 Posted : 26 September 2013 15:38:01

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Hi Robin.
Superp build. Look forward to seeing your progress.
Ian Cool Cool BigGrin
Current builds.Hachettes build the bismark,HMS Victory, HMS Hood.
Finished Builds Corel HMS Victory cross section.
sparks
#292 Posted : 29 September 2013 21:36:01

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Another great post Robin.
Well done ThumpUp
Regards
Alan
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Plymouth57
#293 Posted : 03 October 2013 18:15:23

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Many thanks to Ian and the Alans again! BigGrin

The first of the long hammock net frames is now proudly sitting on the Quarterdeck bulwarks and I’m now beginning the identical one for the other side of the ship.
As mentioned above, the frame clamp worked really well, holding the frames in position and working from right to left (although left handers, or ‘Cack-Handed’ as we call ‘em down here, can just as easily work in reverse).
As with the shorter poop deck and waist barricades, the two end frames were soldered to the brass strip and the horizontal brass rods soldered across, joining them together. Then the intervening frames were clamped in place and soldered to the rods only, except that is for the middle frame. Because of the length of this frame there was too much bending in the middle so the central frame was also soldered to the base to give it more rigidity. The result is shown in Photo 1 (the uprights have simply been snipped off in this picture, the soldered joints still have to be ground down to remove the excess solder).
The smaller frames were just hand held for painting and ‘netting’ but again, due to the long and bendy nature of these frames a different approach was required. Once the three frames which were soldered to the brass strip had been de-soldered and the entire frame removed and cleaned up the ‘U’ frames were painted with Admiralty Metal Black and then the frame was glued to a thicker brass strip. The same three ‘U’ frames that had been soldered were secured with a small drop of super, the idea being to fix the frame securely enough to work on it but still to be easily removable afterwards.
Once glued to the brass strip, the ‘ropes’ joining the frames were painted in the Citadel grey as was the same black nylon mesh to form the netting, (how I wish I’d bought the white mesh now!). I used the same method with the netting material, folding it around a wooden plank just thin enough to fit in between the ‘U’ frames and pushed it down to the bottom of the frames. Once in position I than sliced off the excess netting, level with the rope top with a safety razor blade and then removed the wooden plank leaving the netting inside the frames. I then departed from the smaller nets by carefully running a small bead of superglue along the inside of the ropes, securely fixing the nets in place.
After a little repair painting of the grey paint where the razor had clipped the top of the brass rod in places, it was time for the most laborious part of the procedure: lacing the nets to the rope. This was performed exactly as per the smaller nets with white cotton formed into a needle at one end with super glue and then slowly threaded along the brass ropes, spiralling around and through the top row of the netting mesh. This is by no means a difficult job, but it is very, very time consuming, you sit down to begin at one end and two hours later decide that you’ll finish the second half of the same side tomorrow! The procedure was made a little easier by supporting the whole assembly at a comfortable angle on the ‘Helping Hands’ as seen in Photo 3
When the netting had finally been laced into position (a purely cosmetic operation as the netting was already fixed in place by the super glue bead of course!) the finished frame was then super glued into it’s final position on the top of the quarter deck bulwark as shown in Photo 4.
Photo 5 shows the same frame from a lower angle which brings the Mk2 Waist Barricade into the picture as well.
Finally, going back to the previous post on making up scratch built iron ring bolts, here’s a view of the pair of bolts on the bow (with the annoyingly rough edged yellow stripe conveniently cropped out!) just to show the rusty metal effect achieved through the Blacken-it process (Photo 6)
That’s all for the moment, the second quarter deck frame is now soldered together and I’m painting up the ‘U’ frames ready for the grey ‘ropes’. Should hopefully finish this one off over the weekend after which I think I’ll milliput enough hammocks to fill up these three nets before moving on to the two forecastle frames. More on that later! Also, reading on Gandale’s SOTS diary about the need for an index, I think that’s a very good idea. There’s been a few times when I wanted to refer back to my own diary when describing similar building techniques so I think I’ll work on an index myself giving the post number and diary page for the various sections and components I’ve worked on. As the diary continues to grow (Hopefully!) I can edit the index to include the new bits. It’ll help me to backtrack as much as anybody else I think!

Bye for now.

And Happy building to all

Robin



Plymouth57 attached the following image(s):
Quarter Deck Nets pic 1.JPG
Quarter Deck Nets 2 pic.JPG
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
sparks
#294 Posted : 03 October 2013 22:14:10

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Looking good Robin ThumpUp
Regards
Alan
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Gandale
#295 Posted : 04 October 2013 00:31:09

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Excellent work Robin and once again very well described.... can understand by your description why everything would be so time consuming but the efforts and time spent have certainly produced the results....Drool Drool .. Thanks for you comments on indexing of our diaries, the more I think about it the more I believe it would be helpful and I have to thank Andy (Court Orchard) for planting the idea in my head in the first place.... am just thinking of how to put it together and how best to refer to it.... Cool Cool ..

Keep up the great work and best regards to you...

Regards

Alan
NMBROOK
#296 Posted : 04 October 2013 01:09:48

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Excellent work once again RobinLove
Kind Regards Nigel
Plymouth57
#297 Posted : 05 October 2013 21:22:58

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Many thanks to Nigel and the Alans again!

This is just a quickie post, I'm still working on the second long hammock frame at the moment, the frame itself is now painted and I just have to wait for the painted netting to dry before fitting it into the frame tomorrow - then lots of neck straining laceing/sewing to do! Crying
The picture below is a further example of the Humbrol Enamel Wash that I mentioned a few posts back (I'm also working on an index for this diary at the moment and hopefully, with Gandale's help I'll get it posted up at the beginning with a working 'goto' link to each subject within it. I also, thanks to the same member, discovered what the hell the 'signature page' was for so I'll get that done soon too!Blushing I often wondered how the other members got their lists of kits at the end of their posts!
Back to the wash, I've managed at last to get a good photo which shows the difference this (or any other wash) can make to the model's appearence. I've already detailed the dry brushing technique and the improvement that process makes, if you compare the forward half of the model against the aft section you can see how the darker wash effect on the bow end brings out the shape of the wales and the decorative bands much clearer than the stern half which has just the dry brushed highlights applied.
Using the wash is very easy and any mistakes can be either wiped away and tried again or just repainted with the base colour and repeated. It's a technique I'd definately recommend to even complete beginners, after all, this is the first time I've ever used it on a wooden ship!
Be back with the netting soon-ish.

Happy building to all.

Robin
Plymouth57 attached the following image(s):
Wash effect pic.JPG
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
Gandale
#298 Posted : 05 October 2013 22:57:46

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Hi Robin, she's looking superb and all your efforts have certainly paid off so far..Drool Drool .. Glad I could help with your index and I've sent you a PM that I need you to respond to.... My index took me no more that a few hours to compile, once you get started and get used to the method then you'll fly through it.. Look forward to seeing your final index.... Cool Cool

Regards

Alan
stevie_o
#299 Posted : 06 October 2013 18:13:36

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Plymouth57
#300 Posted : 08 October 2013 18:27:03

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Build-Diary Medal: Build-Diary Medal of HonourActive Service Medal: 500 post active service MedalPurple Medal: Super active service medal for 1000 postsRed Medal: Red MedalTurquoise Medal: Turquoise Medal for model making know-how contributionOutstanding Build: An award for an outstanding build
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Many thanks to all the above for their great comments!Blushing

This is just to announce that there is now an A-Z index on page 1 of the diary. At the moment it is just a printed version but I will be getting it 'linkable' as soon as I can (thanks to Gandale's very kind help and instructions!). Once it's up and running it should make getting around the diary a little easier! BigGrin
The second quarter deck hammock net is now finished and the quarter deck is now in the process of filling up with hammocks!

Back soon and Happy Building!

Robin

PS My damned IE is STILL freezing up at the most annoying moments!! Cursing
First wooden ship: The Grimsby 12 Gun 'Frigate' by Constructo Second: Bounty DelPrado Part Works Third: HMS Victory DelPrado Part Works 1/100 scale
Diorama of the Battle of the Brandywine from the American Revolutionary War Diorama of the Battle of New Falkland (unfinished sci-fi), Great War Centenary Diorama of the Messines Ridge Assault
Index for the Victory diary is on page 1
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