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5th Plank Options
Sinbad
#1 Posted : 30 December 2013 05:23:38

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I said from the outset that I was a little apprehensive about tackling the planking. Well, up till now I have not had a problem. You usually know that when everything is going well there is a problem looming. Hers's mine.
You will see that the 5th plank is well away from the top of the gallery.
According to instructions the 6th plank should overlap the top of the gallery support. No way is that going to happen !
I can assure you that everything is as it should be. I have managed to unglue the gallery and dry fit it and it is down as far as it will go.
The only way around this problem that I can see is to cut the stern niche that the gallery slots into.
I can appreciate that not everything will fit perfectly and some parts may be a little out and require sanding and adjusting, but this is bad.
Sorry about the photo quality.

jase
#2 Posted : 30 December 2013 08:09:11

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Hi Sinbad,

Don't start chopping the gallery or any of the ribs, if there is an issue it is with the planking. The instructions are only a guide but you would not expect to be more than a plank or two out.

Can you take some more picks including the full length of the planking down the hull side and one end on to the stern so I can have a better view of how your planks lie, then no doubt I can help

Jase
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birdaj2
#3 Posted : 30 December 2013 11:05:12

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Hi Sinbad

Some additional pictures of the stern gallery would help.

Wondering if it's possible your stern gallery frame has not been pressed far enough down into its slot and is sitting too high?

Still to glue mine in position but can say mine is a tight fit due to the "layering" of the 2 parts that make up this area.

Kind regards

Tony
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Sinbad
#4 Posted : 30 December 2013 11:56:11

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birdaj2 wrote:
Hi Sinbad

Some additional pictures of the stern gallery would help.

Wondering if it's possible your stern gallery frame has not been pressed far enough down into its slot and is sitting too high?

Still to glue mine in position but can say mine is a tight fit due to the "layering" of the 2 parts that make up this area.

Kind regards

Tony


Yes Tony, everything is pressed down as far as it will go. Like you I had a tight fit but a little sanding fixed that.

Regards
Cliff

stevie_o
#5 Posted : 30 December 2013 12:01:28

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Sinbad
#6 Posted : 30 December 2013 12:52:15

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stevie_o wrote:
You def need to get a pic of the stern because it does look like the final frame is not seated all the way down, which is what I did originally
Steve


Stevie. If it isn't seated properly then it must be the fault of the slot that is cut, because believe me, it's as far down as it will go.
I pressed it down so hard that I actually broke the top of the niche it slides on to.This is how I found that without this it goes to the position it should be.

Tomick
#7 Posted : 30 December 2013 13:08:37
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We need to see more photos, because your shortfall of planking is not as a result of the instructions.
stevie_o
#8 Posted : 30 December 2013 13:46:12

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Sinbad, Please post a pic of the stern at the angle shown in Mr T's pic below. I made the mistake of pushing frame 31 down to what I thought was fully in to the keel slot...BUT, it only pushed down to as far as the top of the keel. So, basically the top of the keel right at the stern was slightly inside the slot of frame 31 thereby raising it by over a cm.

Look at the pic below and notice the 2 zigzag lines where you joined the left and right parts to frame 31, if your frame is sat too high you wont see these lines.

Steve
arpurchase
#9 Posted : 30 December 2013 20:18:26

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BigGrin Hi Sinbad
From your picture it looks like there is at least a 5mm gap between the false keel and the frame this should not be there also I see you have not fitted the rear most frame and formers of the lower gallery as this should be added and the lower part planked before any of the hull planks are added.Hope this helps
regards
AndyCool
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Sinbad
#10 Posted : 30 December 2013 20:23:35

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OK. Here are the pics per request.
You will see that there is a small gap where the Gallery slides dowm, but not that much to make a difference.
Also you will see where I broke The keel slot when I first tried to fit it. Again, this should not make a large difference.
Hope these help.
Cheers
Cliff







Sinbad
#11 Posted : 30 December 2013 20:31:37

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Thanks for your observations Andy. But could you post a pic of what you mean as I have been following the order of things as per the magazines.
Also I really don't think 5mm will make it that far out.
Cheers
Cliff
stevie_o
#12 Posted : 30 December 2013 20:39:58

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Sinbad, it does look like frame 31 is sat too high and not fully inserted into the slot. The bottom of frame 31 should be about inline with frame 30 at the curved part of the hull.
Also, I think you need to repair that broken keel slot correctly too as it dosent seem to be fitted right.

Look carefully at the pic below inside the red elipse - this shows frames 31 and 30 and you can see they are about level at this stage, yours are not level here.


Compare this to yours at the same 2 frames -

Steve
jase
#13 Posted : 30 December 2013 20:54:52

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Sinbad wrote:
Thanks for your observations Andy. But could you post a pic of what you mean as I have been following the order of things as per the magazines.
Also I really don't think 5mm will make it that far out.
Cheers
Cliff



Cliff, 5mm is a massive difference. its the width of a full plank. you can not just chuck these models together. you need to take your time test fit check and check again.

Use the large number of build diaries on the forum for reference all the answers are there.


A further observation your planks are not chamfered enough you are getting a clinker effect and this will get worse if you do not sort it. Also (this may just be your camera angle) but the lie of your planks down the hull does not look true, they appear to wobble up and down; this is going to cause more fit problems at the bow and stern later if you do not get the planks correct now.

Jase
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arpurchase
#14 Posted : 30 December 2013 20:57:37

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BigGrin Hi Steve
5mm or less will make all the differance the frame is not seated properly onto the false keel this will make that former too high and has lead to the problem you now face and it also looks like you have not glued the rear formers in place as the instructions say to do so in parts 16 to 20 post 7 as your able to take pictures of the stern without these formers in place.
Take a good look at the official build diary and all will be revealed.
Hope this helps
Andy

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stevie_o
#15 Posted : 30 December 2013 21:06:57

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jase wrote:
Sinbad wrote:
Thanks for your observations Andy. But could you post a pic of what you mean as I have been following the order of things as per the magazines.
Also I really don't think 5mm will make it that far out.
Cheers
Cliff



Cliff, 5mm is a massive difference. its the width of a full plank. you can not just chuck these models together. you need to take your time test fit check and check again.

Use the large number of build diaries on the forum for reference all the answers are there. i have to say there is no point us trying to help you if you are going to argue with the advice you are being given from experienced model builders.


A further observation your planks are not chamfered enough you are getting a clinker effect and this will get worse if you do not sort it. Also (this may just be your camera angle) but the lie of your planks down the hull does not look true, they appear to wobble up and down; this is going to cause more fit problems at the bow and stern later if you do not get the planks correct now.

Jase


I agree with Jase & Andy 100% here, you cant write off 5mm when making this or any de ag kit for that matter. Please look carefully at the 2 comparison pics I posted and you will see clearly what the problem is.
I would suggest soaking the glue bond of frames 30 and 31, remove them, repair the keel then replace all to resemble the official build and magazineBigGrin
Steve
Sinbad
#16 Posted : 30 December 2013 21:41:47

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stevie_o wrote:
Sinbad, it does look like frame 31 is sat too high and not fully inserted into the slot. The bottom of frame 31 should be about inline with frame 30 at the curved part of the hull.
Also, I think you need to repair that broken keel slot correctly too as it dosent seem to be fitted right.

Look carefully at the pic below inside the red elipse - this shows frames 31 and 30 and you can see they are about level at this stage, yours are not level here.


Compare this to yours at the same 2 frames -

Steve



Thanks for your help and advice Stevie. I guess I'll just have to try unglue things and see if I can fix this problem
Much appreciated.
Thanks and Happy New Year.
Cliff

Sinbad
#17 Posted : 02 January 2014 04:10:04

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It seems this is a hopeless case.
I managed to get F30 off and checked it for it's seating. As I thought it was seated correctly.The top of F30 and the previous frame were level so this told me things were as they should be.
I checked out various builds in the forums (I found a very good one in the Malaysian forum) and also compared this area to photos in the magazines I found everything to be in order, apart from my gallery sitting too high.
So, until I come up with a solution I'm afraid the build is on hold.
I suppose I could carry on with the planking but this seems pointless as the problem is not going to go away.
Thanks everyone for your support and suggestions.
stevie_o
#18 Posted : 02 January 2014 13:58:06

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Sinbad, Frame 30 already looked like it was seated correctly (and I only suggested removing this one as it shares the slot with 31), frame 31 is not correct and this is the frame your supports are mounted on. You have to put frame 31 into the final slot of the keel, it's a sort of double slot for 30 and 31.
Don't base yours as being good by the height of the frame tops as these vary, they simply have to be down into the slot correctly.
It really shouldnt be difficult to sort or and now that you have soaked off frame 30 an 31 we can see whats wrong.
Please post a pic of the final keel slot without the frames (showing the keel slot repair), and another pic with frame 30 in place and then with frame 31 in place. take the pics so that I can see where the frame inserts into the keel.

The pic below shows frame 31 in place but no supports - I need you to take a pic of yours at this angle and if the keel and frame top appear as shown in the red circle then it's all good.



I would not continue planking until this is all sorted out.
Steve
arpurchase
#19 Posted : 02 January 2014 15:41:15

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Hi Sinbad
I dissagree with Steve your frame 30 is sitting to high and I suspect is not forward enough and that is why frame 31 broke the false keel when you tried to fit it.
The reason I say this is your pictures in post#10 show a marked gap of 5mm or less between former 30 and the false keel this former needs to be removed and placed in its correct position and then former 31 should fit at its correct height to former 30.
This is not as bad as you think it depends on the glue used though , if its PVA or white wood glue then brushing on warm water till it penetrates the joint and loosens it off is the way to go if you have used any other glue like super glue things can get messy when you try to remove the former but using a knife blade carefully on the joints can free them up
regards
AndyCool
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stevie_o
#20 Posted : 02 January 2014 16:57:00

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arpurchase wrote:
Hi Sinbad
I dissagree with Steve your frame 30 is sitting to high and I suspect is not forward enough and that is why frame 31 broke the false keel when you tried to fit it.
The reason I say this is your pictures in post#10 show a marked gap of 5mm or less between former 30 and the false keel this former needs to be removed and placed in its correct position and then former 31 should fit at its correct height to former 30.
This is not as bad as you think it depends on the glue used though , if its PVA or white wood glue then brushing on warm water till it penetrates the joint and loosens it off is the way to go if you have used any other glue like super glue things can get messy when you try to remove the former but using a knife blade carefully on the joints can free them up
regards
AndyCool


OK, frame 30 could do with being seated a little lower as there is a gap, but I put this down to the fact that the keel is damaged and not repaired well at all.
My circled areas in post 12 shows very clearly that frame 31 has to come down and my guess is that it needs to come down by the entire depth of the half slot in the keel. In the same pic look how the planks fit fairly well to frame 30 showing that this is not the main problem, it could do with coming down a fraction lower but I think the keel repair will sort this. Frame 31 is way out. This is why I wanted to see the keel repair without the frames in place then pics of each frame going in as Sinbad has now said that he has soaked and removed both the frames in the last double slot.

Basically, The supports were way too high due to frame 31 not being fully inserted, and yes, this is probably due to the fact that frame 30 is also badly fitted as they share a slot.
Just to point out, I did this exact same thing with my build but spotted it before planking began, In my case though the keel didn't break, it was just that frame 31 wasn't fully inserted.
Steve
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